Support for Arkansas Week provided by the Arkansas Democrat Gazette, The Arkansas Times and KUARFM 89.

Hello again, everyone, and thanks very much for joining us for a special edition of Arkansas Week.

We're coming to you not from our usual digs, but from the conference room adjoining the office of the Governor of Arkansas.

And our guest is the honorable ASA Hutchinson.

Thanks very much, governor, for making yourself available.

Thank you, Steve.

Good to be with you.

You are down now literally today's remaining in your eight years.

Reflections.

Well, it's been the highest honor of my public life to be Governor of Arkansas.

And the reflections are that we've accomplished a great deal.

We've met challenges that were unanticipated, such as a pandemic.

We solve problems, we handle crisis.

And that to me is what leadership is about.

And with that, eight years is a good length of time.

I have no issue with being able to move on to new challenges.

An opportunities but it's it's been incredible blessing for Susan and me to have this honor that the people of Arkansas gave us.

In terms of your accomplishments, what can you what would you point to as saying number 123 you know it's really hard to.

Prioritize those, but obviously the computer science initiative tax cuts that are historic in proportion are two of the top, because those are real game changers, transformative changes for the state of Arkansas, you think about over a billion dollars in tax relief, but the rate more particularly going from 7% individual income tax rate down to 4.9%.

It's a huge differential that allows us to compete with other states.

That's very significant.

And then, you know, changing the whole landscape of Arkansas to be a national leader in computer science education starting off at eight years ago with a simple pledge to say we're going to put computer science in every high school in Arkansas.

And today we've accomplished that in more going from 1100 students taking computer science to over 23.

1000 this year and nationally recognized for where we are in that is, is certainly you know a life changer for the young people, but also even our business development.

We have technology companies that come here, startup companies because of of the talent that we're producing.

So pretty excited about both of those policy changes that will make a difference in the lives of our Kansans skeptics or your critics are what?

Offered two points regarding the tax cuts.

One that they.

Unfair.

Unfairly favored the more affluent Arkansas, Arkansas taxpayers.

And the other was that you chose tax cuts in terms of policy.

You you chose tax cuts over strategic investments, say K12 pre-K higher.

Ed, your thoughts?

Well, let's take those one at a time.

And you know, first, in terms of the style of the tax cuts, my first pledge was a $100 billion middle income tax cuts which we did.

The second time we came into session, we did a $50 million lower income tax cut.

And so then we lowered the rate.

Finally, that covered some of the top earners.

And then each time though, we gave some benefit to the lower income as well.

And so I think it's balanced.

It was necessary and it benefited every Arkansan.

You know, on the second point that somehow we shirked our responsibility for services, particularly education.

You know, in our last General Assembly we was, we had the highest increase in education funding that we've had in 10 years.

My budget that goes into place this year that I've recommended the General Assembly has a another incredibly large increase that would actually allow enough money to raise teacher salaries again.

And so we've raised teacher salary once.

Each year by $1000 up to 4000, the minimum salary and now we want to raise it more.

So we've really invested in education.

You look at the other services that you can't point to any that have been shirked.

We have shrunk the size of state government in terms of state employees, but our services have improved from education to drug treatment, courts to foster care.

So we've met those challenges.

And invested real dollars there.

The.

When when you took office, the Medicaid expansion was still.

A very, very, very hot topic.

You got it through.

And I was a note that you didn't mention it in terms of accomplishments.

So are we to take from that that in your your view anyway the Medicaid expansion is now a fixed part of Arkansas political law or policy life.

I do think it's it's it's welded into the.

Magic, the Medicaid expansion was extraordinarily difficult to continue.

It took some creative engineering with the votes in the House and Senate to get it through, but we got it done and it was really important that you know, once you expand the healthcare coverage, you don't want to be able to shrink it, particularly when we have a rural state like Arkansas and it benefits so many.

So it is a part of the fabric of our healthcare system.

But you this last time we got a waiver from the Biden administration to expand services even more through our rural hospitals called the Live 360 initiative and it was legislatively driven, but you know that's part of the Medicaid expansion.

But it's going to put real dollars in helping our rural hospitals survive and provide coverage for maternal healthcare as well as mental and drug addiction counseling.

So those are the kind of changes.

That can be made with states having flexibility.

We've done that and I think you'll continue to see those really good changes in Arkansas really from his first days the expansion in Arkansas was was built on waivers was it not in a sense, well it was the private option anyway during your predecessor absolutely they it's a waiver is really a pilot project to see how it works.

Well, we've been in that we've had that waiver for our private option with the.

Using Medicaid dollars to buy commercial insurance and we've had that now for what 12 years, I guess it is since the beginning.

So it's a, you know, really a permanent part of it.

But then we also have another pilot program for the life 360 homes of supporting our rural hospitals.

And so that to me is innovation and healthcare and that's the whole idea of the federal government giving us some flexibility to the states we try.

New things, we've done that in Arkansas and it's really something I believe will be beneficial to the nation as they study the results here in Arkansas in terms of the administration's track record with the General Assembly and in its interface with the private sector.

Anyway, things were going pretty well for you.

Along came COVID.

And change not only at least temporarily, the economy, but it changed the political equation as well, political situation as well.

But those were among your most difficult days, I have to imagine.

Well, they were, they were difficult for everybody and leadership whether it was health care or and even Arkansas families.

So absolutely the pandemic was tough, it was very tough and and it was somewhat of a strain with the relationship with the legislature.

But you know we were able to pull it back together and to make sure that we continue to work for the good of our Kansans and subsequently we lowered taxes again we invested in education so.

That was just part of the strain of the pandemic.

But we've had a lot of success through that and beyond that.

You went too far according to some, in terms of of restrictions on commerce, on education.

The administration went too far in retrospect.

Did you?

That was the criticism anyway, from some quarters of the General Assembly.

In retrospect, did you go too far?

Would you change anything?

Well, history will determine that, but when it comes to education, I'm very proud of the fact that.

Arkansas ranks #2 in the nation.

In terms of days of in classroom instruction during the pandemic, that means that we had more days of in classroom instruction than Florida and Texas.

We didn't, you know, make a big deal about it, but we knew we had to keep our schools open.

So I'm very proud of that.

We didn't buckle to the pressure.

We kept our businesses open.

You'll remember that, Steve, where I was having to go on every national show and explain why we're not sheltering in place even.

President Trump was pushing governors to close and 30 day pause.

And so I think that we really worked hard under my leadership to keep things open in Arkansas and I think that's one of the reasons we recovered quickly economically.

And so I think in in hindsight we did a lot of things well here.

You know whenever it was very, very important for our churches that we never pushed any restrictions on our churches.

Because of the separation of church and state, and the government's not telling the churches that they, you know, can't gather for worship.

That was an important principle that I followed during the pandemic.

And you know, some of those decisions I made are not well known, but they were important nonetheless.

Well, in fact, those schools were closed.

Public schools and private followed suit for fairly substantial time.

In March of 2020, whenever the pandemic hit, our schools went virtual for that spring semester.

They went virtual.

So they're still open, but they were virtual.

But after that, I determined we've got to go back for in classroom.

It can't be virtual.

It's got to be in classroom for the beginning of that fall of 2020 school.

And if you remember, that's when the cases started going up.

I had teachers.

Protesting from some school districts in front of the mansion saying you're going to put us in the grave.

Tremendous pressure to.

Close the schools to go virtual in the fall of 2020 and I said no and Secretary Key backed it up.

We want to we know how important it is to have the in classroom instruction.

We had to pivot from time to time, but we did that and that was unique what we did in Arkansas compared to what a lot of other states did nationally.

COVID did what?

Well put it this way.

All of your predecessors that I've.

Covered have at one time or another expressed some frustration at the institutional limits on executive authority, the power of the governor in Arkansas, COVID.

Prompted the General Assembly to assume even more authority than it had previously had.

Have have you found that your?

Have you been frustrated?

In in in how?

The hoops that you may have to jump through, you're on a governor's unable to snap his fingers and make some things done.

Is it?

Is it?

Too far out of balance.

By and large, no.

I think there's a good check and balance between the executive branch and the legislative branch when it comes to managing emergencies.

I believe the governor has sufficient flexibility.

It was really just from an infectious disease standpoint that the legislature drafted new language to share more of their responsibility.

And I worked with them on that and we agreed to it and I signed it into law.

And I think it's fine.

It just simply means.

I declare an emergency and they have to come in within 30 days and to reaffirm it or not and that's a tough and it's work we've done that you know we've we've put it into use and it's worked well.

The where I think it's important to understand that the Governor of Arkansas has one of the weakest vetoes of any governor in the country, simple majority, simple majority and that's where he gets out of out of balance and so.

You know, I've vetoed a number of pieces of legislation.

Only one has been overridden.

I have to obviously be very careful about what I veto because it's not going to accomplish anything and it's going to create a lot of ill feelings.

And so, you know, I've tried to be reserved in it, but the governor, whenever you take the executive branch and say this law is not a good law, then it ought to be at some kind of a supermajority to override that.

That's the whole concept.

Veto.

And so that's something that I hope that can be looked at down the road and improve.

Correct that to what I see as an imbalance.

You had to spend a good deal of time.

Ohh.

Persuading the General Assembly to abandon some of its own social legislation.

Cultural issues, hot button cultural issues that you were usually prevailed in in in, in quashing.

Has that.

How much time, how big of a distraction was that to the administration?

I mean, you were worried about education, economic development and other issues.

Well, that's just part of the process.

That's just part of.

Having a General Assembly that's hard at work and it's really reflecting the fact that.

Many people in Arkansas, me included, we're concerned about our culture.

Well, you know, what's the direction?

Is it going and how do you address it?

You know what's being taught in our schools.

But you know the the difference is that I don't believe the solution is always passing a law.

You know, it is about parental involvement in our schools.

It's about who's on the school board.

It's about transparency and it's also if you look at the cultural issues.

We face, it's about the strength of our communities, our churches and our families and that's where we impact our culture, you know, versus simply passing a law because that has a lot of repercussions and it's not very conservative now.

So I I pick and choose.

You know, I signed the law that said biological males cannot compete in women's sports.

I believe that.

I think it's, you know, something that's important.

I believe in girls who participate.

They ought to be able to compete with each other.

So I I signed that into law, but then others I pushed back against and and so there's a balance there and that's what the legislative process is.

Have we spent too much time in Arkansas on these cultural hot buttons, bathroom bills, etcetera?

Well, you know, I don't know if you can say too much time, but the bathroom bills is a good example.

At the time those are presented, I said these are the most sensitive issues in the world and they can be handled by our local school districts.

We don't need to pass a law that is a statewide prescription for, you know, a challenge that some school districts face and others don't.

And to me, you know, whenever a teacher or a.

Principle and a parents get together and they work through these issues.

That's the right way to handle it.

And so, sure, I don't think that was a healthy debate necessarily, but that is.

What we do, and in a democracy, there is now in the federal courts a challenge to the the statutes that the General Assembly enacted regarding medical care for trans youth.

Should that should that law be sustained?

Are you?

What is your hope for the outcome of that litigation?

Well, I I vetoed that legislation, right.

And so I I do believe there's some constitutional issues there.

I think the the Judge Moody is indicated he has some concerns there that's why it was enjoined.

We'll see the ultimate outcome.

But it's really important when you look at that legislation dealing with our trans youth or those that are suffering from gender dysphoria, I would have signed that law.

Immediately.

If it would have simply prohibited reassignment surgeries for minors.

That goes too far.

Shouldn't happen.

It's irreversible.

It's not best medical practices.

Doesn't happen in Arkansas but I would assign that.

But whenever you get into, you know, medication and and other issues, I think the power of the state can be reserved and leave that to a doctor and a parent.

Conservatives are always talking about parents need to make decisions well.

Let's not take that power away from parents and the physicians on a very difficult issue that our children are facing.

If you were granted another term as governor, would you advocate for?

Would you sign an exemption of an abortion exemption for rape and incest victims?

Should that be permitted, I would sign a law that recognized the exemptions for rape and incest.

That's been my historic position.

I think we can lose the debate easily on pro-life values whenever we don't allow those two exceptions.

But that's my position.

I would sign that you are entitled to offer your success or some advice.

What would it be?

You know, I really wouldn't want to be presumptive to offer her advice.

Listen, she's, she's, we're asking.

I mean, you're not presuming.

I mean, you know, she's going to, I would say work closely with the legislature, but she doesn't need advice.

She's got, she ran a great campaign.

She's, you know.

Got an agenda for this next legislative session.

It concentrates on education reading initiative.

So I applaud that, wish her well and in every way and I think she will be successful.

Moving on, you're you're moving on again, you're just down to days now you have expressed an interest in the Presidency, so everyone assumes that you're running until you declare that you aren't not running.

So what is the path forward that you see?

You're rather to the left.

Most people believe of contemporary Republican politics.

Or are you, Sir?

You know, my record is very conservative in Arkansas and people on the national scene understand that, that I have a conservative record and it's been consistent for 40 years in Arkansas politics.

But I think what distinguishes me, I listen.

I try to work across the aisle.

I try to resolve problems.

And to me that means you're a common sense conservative.

I'm not going to get elected in a Republican primary if people perceive me other than a conservative.

And I think my record justifies that.

But we do need to have a pragmatism, optimism about our country.

We don't need to concentrate on division.

We need to concentrate on addition.

And I'm proud of the record.

That we have of diversity in Arkansas, I think I have actually the most diverse cabinet in the history of any governor in Arkansas.

Very proud of that record.

Women, minorities and and I think that reflects who I am as a person and that we try to bring people together.

You know, in terms of 2024, that's one of the biggest leaps that anybody can can make.

I have been pleased with the response.

But it's not only.

Practical politics and impacts on family.

But it's also involves a lot of money that you have to raise and and so we got to make some tough decisions that'll come up in January or beyond.

But we're we're looking at we'll see where it leads you have said so that it's time for your party to move past Trumpism.

Mr Trump patently does not agree with that he's announced the the midterm elections.

What does that suggest to you?

The midterm about the mood of your party, particularly on the primary landscape and the country as a whole.

I think it was a a reminder.

It was a.

You know.

You know, telling the Republican voters that we can't win if we nominate candidates in the primary, they can't win in November.

We have to nominate candidates that can attract independents and suburban voters.

That's how you win in in the general election, and that's where we want to win.

Now, if you look back at the midterm elections, it was not a rejection of Republican principles and ideas because candidates who ran on our principles and ideas one.

But if they if they were endorsed by Trump and they went too far that direction, they lost.

And if they were.

Debating and hanging out for the denying the last election results?

Then they didn't.

Prevail.

And so there's a lesson to me is for the party.

Let's move forward.

Let's solve problems, let's stick with our Republican principles.

And we win when we do that.

Governor, thank you very much for your time and to our audience.

This constitutes our on air version of our exit interview as it were for with Mr Hutchinson.

But if you would like to go and join us on the web, on our web version, we have a couple of more minutes I think that the governor has granted us.

So go to the web and thanks for joining us.

Support for Arkansas Week provided by the Arkansas Democrat Gazette, The Arkansas Times and KUARFM 89.